Back to the Stage with Drupal GovCon

Matt Kleve: For September 21st, 2023. It's the Lullabot podcast.

[Intro music]

Matt Kleve: Hey everybody, it's the Lullabot podcast, episode 263. I'm Matt Kleve, a senior developer at Lullabot, and today we're just going to jump right into it. It seems like a lot of Drupal events have kind of started happening again. I was lucky enough to attend Twin Cities Drupal camp last week, and I'm looking forward to another one that's on the horizon. And a couple of organizers who are involved with that one wanted to reach out and kind of talk a little bit about it at what it used to, you know, years, a couple years ago was it was really like DrupalCon number three, is the way I remember it. We're talking about Drupal GovCon and with us, we have a couple of organizers with GovCon. We have a solutions architect with Pronovix. He's also the Drupal4Gov communications strategy director Christoph Weber. Welcome, Christoph.

Christoph Weber: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Matt Kleve: Glad you're here. Also with us, we have digital project manager at Digital Polygon and Drupal4Gov operations director Nina Ogor. Hi, Nina. Hey. Glad you're here.

Nina Ogor: Thanks. Thanks, Matt. I'm really excited to do this podcast and talk a little bit more about Drupal4Gov and Drupal GovCon, and kind of coming back this year after Covid, which was a lot.

Matt Kleve: Yeah, a lot of a lot of these, you know, smaller camps and stuff. I mean, we saw Drupal Con took a year off or so, and some of these smaller camps have kind of not exactly come back. When I was at Twin Cities, I know I talked to some of the organizers, and they were really impressed that more people showed up than they expected. GovCon is coming! That's exciting!

Nina Ogor: It is. It is. And we've gotten such an awesome reception, to be honest, a bit more overwhelming than we were expecting. We we were, you know, very aware that it's been Covid and we're coming back. And so we're a little bit tentative, but the overwhelming support has been fantastic from the community. We are really anticipating selling out completely. So if you haven't gotten a ticket yet, if you haven't registered, I highly encourage you to do. Probably going to sell out by the end of this month. So that's awesome news. A month ahead of when we're supposed to actually do the event, we're we're going to be set. So that's very exciting for us.

Matt Kleve: You say sell out I think I registered, but I don't remember paying you anything. Is that right?

Nina Ogor: You are absolutely correct. I keep forgetting that, my terminology problem, it is a free conference and we are very excited to be able to offer it to our attendees for free because of the generous support and continuing support of our sponsors. So if you want to attend, please do. There's no cost and we do have travel scholarships, though it has closed at this time. We try and make it accessible for anyone, no matter what level you are, or what your financial situation is, to be able to attend.

Matt Kleve: That's that's really great. So November 1st and 2nd, let's get down to the details. And it's happening in Bethseda. And for somebody not near the Beltway, that just means it's somewhere kind of in the neighborhood of Washington, D.C., right?

Nina Ogor: Yep. Bethesda. Bethesda.

Matt Kleve: Bethesda. Oh my gosh, I can't even read Bethesda, Maryland. Okay. Gotcha.

Nina Ogor: Yep. It'll happen at Bethesda, at the Residence Inn and also the Hilton. So we're actually going to be split between two hotels, which should be fun. But they're a hop, skip and a stone throw away from each other, so it's not a far distance at all.

Matt Kleve: So is this a how many people are you going to limit it to? Like, what's the goal?

Nina Ogor: So before, you know, we had a thousand attendees and that was a lot for a volunteer run organization.

Matt Kleve: Oh, gosh. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Nina Ogor: No one here gets paid. We do it because we love it. And that is awesome, but also very exhausting. We are limiting it right now to about 400. However, because of the reception we've got. We are really trying to add a little bit more. So you might see that number jump just a smidge as we try and make sure we're accommodating as many attendees who are excited to come back as possible.

Matt Kleve: Sounds like fun. So a few hundred people getting together and talking about Drupal. And that's that's kind of the bottom line, right? There's trainings as well. I mean, we're just kind of getting back to the way it used to be.

Nina Ogor: Yes. With with some caveats. You know, we're going to try and keep the event safe as can be. We will be providing some masks and other, you know, preventative measures, Lysol and whatnot. But, yeah, we're excited about the trainings. We have Drupal Easy and Debug Academy doing some really awesome trainings. And again, that's all free to our attendees. So if you've wanted to take their courses this would be a great way to sort of get that information that's accessible to see if you want to actually, you know, move forward with that paid course a little bit later on. We also have Evolving Web, doing a really cool UX design class while we're there. It's sort of an interactive as you go throughout the day, coming to visit, Evolving Web and their UX design. And we have a couple of new sponsors just doing really, really cool things, and we're so excited about it.

Matt Kleve: And so the the conference itself is free. Generally the trainings have some sort of registration fee.

Nina Ogor: There is no registration fee for the trainings. Just have to register that that's the thing. You have to, tickets go fast. Even though it is free, it tends to, you know, fill up. So yeah, if you're interested, if any of what I'm saying is like, oh, I should do that, please register now. It will be gone very quickly.

Matt Kleve: When was the last time GovCon happened?

Nina Ogor: Hmm, in person. That would be 2018? 2019? I'm forgetting. Online, we did two virtual conferences, which were a pain in the butt. To be honest.

Matt Kleve: You're talking about the Covid era online conferences, right?

Nina Ogor: Oh, the Covid era online conference as Christoph nods his head. The horrendous-ness of those. Yes. I prefer to just eclipse those. They are blanked from my memory. But this is our 10th in-person conference, so our last one was about 2019, 2018 at Natcher National Institute of Health conference. And that's typically where we are. But they're undergoing renovations this year and they just weren't able to accommodate us because of that. So hopefully next year we'll be back to our typical 800 to 1000 person conference. But, you know, Covid has given us a really great opportunity to explore some other avenues and also meet new people. Actually, in fact, Christoph is new to our team. He's just awesome, just kind of stepped up and was like, hey, Nina, I want to help. And I was like, absolutely, Christoph, please, you're doing this. And so you'll kind of find that in our organization as well. If you're interested in Drupal or volunteering or giving back, like join us, you will have a role, you will have things to do and and you'll have fun. Christoph, it's fun, right? I'm not like imagining that?

Christoph Weber: Oh no absolutely. You know, and it's right up my alley in terms of where I want to be engaged. So yes, for sure, it's fun.

Matt Kleve: Nina, you've done a few of these with with GovCon in the past. Is that the case? A couple you've organized?

Nina Ogor: Yes, I've been with the organization pretty much since we started. So we started as GovDays back in, oh my goodness, 2009, maybe 2008? It's been way too long. When we were small, we had 50 people, and we've just grown, so. I've been with the organization now for about 12 years, started as a volunteer, got roped in as Christoph has, and now I'm a director. And that's just that's kind of how it goes.

Matt Kleve: Nina, you keep saying that you roped Christoph in. I went back and I stalked his drupal.org profile page. I think he's been been involved with organizing a couple of Drupal camps in the past, right?

Nina Ogor: He has.

Christoph Weber: I have yeah, yeah. It's it's not my first rodeo, but the first time at DrupalGov, GovCon. Yeah, I've been in, in you know, in the scene for a while now. A year before Drupal hit the White House, when Dries and Kieran were invited to the White House and and the whole Drupal in government really exploded in a big way. So we had local camps here in San Diego, where I live, that I was involved in. I've been sort of on the fringes of DrupalCamp LA for a number of years. So yeah, over the years, one gets around, right?

Matt Kleve: Yeah. I mean, that's been a while. I that dates back to what, 2010, 2011? When the White House website went Drupal. I remember I was at Drupal conference when a representative from the White House technology team keynoted, and I heard kind of this conversation in the background, this hubbub that was like, I think we've reached the point where a technology person no longer gets fired for recommending Drupal. And I think it's kind of grown and is still around a lot of government sites. It's no longer the White House, right? But it's still all over the government technology space?

Christoph Weber: It very much is. Yes. So yeah. No, the White House is now last time I looked was on WordPress, which is just as fine as long as they're on open source. But a lot of the government is on Drupal because it sort of started creating waves. And, you know, last I looked, I think almost the entire army was on Drupal. I may be misspeaking somewhat, but for me as a taxpayer makes me extremely happy when I see that breadth of engagement.

Matt Kleve: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, starting starting from scratch is no fun. Drupal is certainly a good, I think it's a good place to base your, your content framework from but then again, I've been a Drupal developer for like 15 years now, so I suppose I'm a little biased and that's okay.

Christoph Weber: Aren't we all? But I think there's there's something to be said about building on an open source framework and having the option to fire your current shop if things go sour, and continue with someone else without exchanging your tech stack. So there's that one benefit that even is a benefit to commercial customers that we deal with. But in government, even more so because less money goes to waste. But then on top of this is also that there are no license fees, you're not captive to a certain tech stack. All all of these optionalities that one would think should exist when it is using public money, as opposed to being totally architected into a corner and stuck.

Matt Kleve: Very good. I know that a lot of times when you get a conference together, you've got the trainings, you've got the sessions. Have we attracted a couple of keynote speakers that we can talk about yet?

Christoph Weber: Yes, we have we have Amy June Hineline that and her title is currently "Pitching My Tent in Drupal: From There and Back Again, a Contributors Tale". So we'll probably hear a lot about her mentoring and contributing journey and why it makes sense for someone. I'm really looking forward to that one. And then we on the second keynote, we have Frederick Mitchell, whose title is "Reframing Diversity Through the Lens of Star Trek and Star Trek Voyager", in fact. So that's going to be very interesting, especially for sci fi fans among us.

Matt Kleve: Sure. I mean, I guess I hadn't considered something like that, but diversity in Star Trek isn't a new conversation. That'll be interesting. I look forward to hearing both of those folks. I just saw Amy June at Twin Cities Drupal Camp. So those those two keynotes sound great. Is that the kind of thing? One keynote per day on the first and on the second?

Christoph Weber: That's the program, yes. So that on both days, we have a sort of the keynote is supposed to be, you know, the anchor of the entire program. So, yes. In terms of other sessions, we've got a number of things lined up. It's starting to take shape, but we can take the liberty today of announcing three that have been pre-selected. One is "Maximizing Visual Studio Code with DDEV", which is going to be presented by Mike Anello. So we know this one's going to be a winner, both thematically, but also because Mike is just is a really good presenter. Another one that we want to pre-announce here on your podcast is "How One Federal Program Used Google Analytics 4 to Surface Untapped Data and Understand Their Content". And that one's going to be presented by Elizabeth Costello and Emily Patterson. I'm curious to see how theirs will shake out and work for everyone. But, you know, the new analytics features that we now have at our disposal certainly are going to be interesting in many ways, and a few people are already familiar with those. And then a third one that we can preannounce today is "Do You Still Need SaaS in 2023?", which is going to be presented by Lullabot's own Aubrey Sambor so that's going to be an interesting topic. Do can you go with just plain old vanilla CSS because it has evolved, or do you still want to do SaaS in your front end? Again, an interesting topic that will help people reframe how they think about their front end.

Matt Kleve: Yeah. You know, I took some time off going to some of these Drupal camps because I think for a while I kept hearing the same thing over and over again. I'm blown away at the diversity of some of these submissions and some of these great ideas. You know, the drop keeps moving, right?

Christoph Weber: And I think because we've all been sort of cloistered for a bit we have a lot of catching up to do because the drop did keep moving and lots of interesting things have happened, but we haven't had the time and the leisure to really exchange. And you know, there's the official session track, right? But there's also the hallway track. To me, the hallway track is 50% of the draw and you cannot have a hallway track virtually. We've tried and we failed. I Never took anything useful from those virtual hallway tracks, frankly. But in real life, I do. And then, of course, you have evening programs. You hang out with people, and you talk shop, or you just talk about life or whatever, but each and every one of those interactions just deepens our overall understanding of the ecosystem that we're in.

Matt Kleve: You're right. I think virtually that hallway track is tough. Part part of that, I think, is a little easier because if you're in person, because, you know, if you see somebody who knows something you want to know about, you can kind of seek them out and, and maybe happen to run into them at the lunch table or in the hallway at the same time and and ask, ask your questions, and get some information, share with each other. And that's that's really useful on in all of these meetups.

Christoph Weber: That's very true. And it can be life changing, and almost. One of my initiation events was three months into my Drupal journey, I was at DrupalCamp LA, and then at the end of a ta- in between two talks some newbie approached one of the more senior people that happened to be in the crowd and said so. And that was Drupal six days back in 2008. If you were to do images in Drupal, how would you approach that? And and this guy said, well, go with image field and image API. And I think there was a third module at the time that sort of preceded what we now had for, for a long time in Drupal seven, Drupal eight, nine and ten. And

Matt Kleve: Probably image cache. Yeah.

Christoph Weber: I guess so. Right? Yeah. Anyway, I noted down those those module names and went home and researched them and never looked back. And of course, it set the stage for everything that happened later. So just a random thing I overheard set me on the right track, as opposed to whatever options were available at the time. And for a noob, that was absolutely essential.

Matt Kleve: Yeah, depending on the era there, you might have even caught the end of the image module, which it would have been a totally different, you know, track and kind of away from where Drupal ended up for a while. But yeah, that's that's pretty good. So we're, we're recording this the week of the 18th I see on your website. The rest of the sessions are going to be released this week?

Nina Ogor: Yeah, they definitely are. We're really excited to announce it. Toward the end of this week. So the thing that we just announced are moving forward, but we're also going to coordinate with the rest of our speakers. And I think you'll be really surprised and really happy with the diversity of just applicants we have this year and a couple of the different sessions we're doing. I'm really as Christoph said, I'm really excited. With just this year's, you know, pitches and selections, it's really, really cool.

Matt Kleve: Yeah, that's that's great. Anything surprising to you with the the folks that want to talk?

Nina Ogor: In terms of who, who the speakers are?

Matt Kleve: Or what they have to say or?

Nina Ogor: You know...

Matt Kleve: Anything different that you're not used to seeing in the submissions?

Nina Ogor: So I will say in terms of the content, I am not a Drupal expert. I am firmly in my project management territory, but I've been really happy to see that it is back end, front end, project management, a lot of sessions about community. In fact, we have one that I'm really excited about because I got to see him present at DrupalCamp Asheville. You know, I often miss that. So Caleb's session is "A Year in the Life of [sort of] a Junior Developer" and his progress. And I'm really excited because he was a great speaker. And I said, hey, you have to, you know, submit your session. I think it will be awesome. And and he got selected. I, I'm not on the selection committee, but I was really excited that there's going to be someone who can we can track a, you know, year in their life and just a couple of different sessions that really explore the community aspect. We're really, really leaning into the camp theme this year of coming back, of revitalizing the community. And you can see that in the keynotes that we have and in the choices that we've selected for this year as well.

Christoph Weber: I'm excited about this last one that Nina just mentioned, because I think these sorts of accounts of how someone's journey went can be very encouraging and motivating for other people who are on the fence or hesitating a little bit to lean more into their path forward. Because I think they, they tear down barriers and say, look, you can do this. This is how I did it. And these were my fears and how they were allayed. All this stuff matters a lot to get more people into Drupal and get them off the fence and really into into the center of our community. So, so that we can keep feeding and at the bottom of the pyramid to to really build on the community and make it a strong ecosystem rather than all of us going gray over time. And we have no new people coming in.

Matt Kleve: We're talking with Nina and Christoph who are helping organize Drupal GovCon. It's coming back. More from them coming up right after this.

[Intro music]

Matt Kleve: Welcome back. We're on the lullabot podcast. So, Christoph, Nina at the top of the show, I mentioned your roles within Drupal4Gov. Can you explain a little bit about what that is and how that's different than GovCon? Or maybe it's the same, I don't know, just help me figure it out.

Nina Ogor: Absolutely.So this is a common, common problem. We haven't done a great job of explaining it. So Drupal4Gov is the nonprofit, and Drupal GovCon is our flagship event. It's it's the thing that we're known for, right. In terms of the nonprofit, we have a couple of different ventures we do. We have a monthly webinar with on average 200 attendees, more or less. We've been growing steadily over the past few months. That's been awesome to see. We also have hack days throughout the year. We do a Drupal Global Training day and more recently we had our first ever GovTech leadership exchange with the presidential management PMF, so presidential Management Fellows and the alumni association for PMF as well, where we had different government chiefs of staff and really high ranking government officials come together with CEOs of local DC businesses in a very small, very intimate, we did not advertise it a lot, session to just sort of exchange ideas. So we're really excited about some of the new ventures, like the GovTech leadership exchange that we're doing this year. Just sort of revitalize the community and also make sure that everyone realizes that Drupal is absolutely still in government and that government folks still need the training. It is key for them. That's that's really the heart of our mission, to make sure that it's accessible for local, state and federal employees to get the training they need and that that's that's really our core mission as well. I could I could talk forever about a couple of the other things we're doing. But but those are really the key. And we're always looking for webinars. And if someone is interested on your podcast doing webinar, I highly encourage them to contact us at contact@drupal4gov.us. We're happy to talk. And we always love, again, supporting the community and just hearing what awesome things people are doing.

Matt Kleve: Yeah, that's that's cool. Now, one thing I heard there was you were going beyond the federal government. If we have a a government conference that's happening in the Washington, DC area, I'm sure most people think about, you know, it's going to serve everybody dealing with the federal government. But Drupal4Gov also reaches out to government beyond the feds. Right?

Nina Ogor: Absolutely. We do state, local and of course, federal. But we have a couple of different agencies that we work with. We partner with that, volunteer with us as well. In addition, we do a lot of work with non-profits. I mean, we ourselves are a nonprofit, so we really want to be as inclusive of not just government employees, but really anyone interested in the Drupal sphere that couldn't attend DrupalCon or is more interested in a couple of the sessions that we have. I think you mentioned it earlier that we were like the third Drupal conference.

Matt Kleve: That's kind of the way I saw it. I mean, it was a big conference and, you know, it was very similar to DrupalCon in that you have great sessions from wide ranging members of the community. And it wasn't all government content either.

Nina Ogor: Which we pride ourselves on being diverse in the content we offer. And and people often mistake the Gov in our name for being government focused. We put the gov in that so that it is inclusive of government employees because it's really, really hard for them to get the funding or be able to like pass it through their offices because, you know, you have to do a ton of paperwork if you want to go do anything in government. It's a lot of just red tape. So we bypassed that red tape by making our event free, by adding Gov in the title, by making it accessible, and that that's really why we have Gov in our title is to be you know, accessible for anyone interested in Drupal within the community.

Matt Kleve: Yeah. I mean, as far as other levels of government, I know that Drupal is all over local governments, but I have code on three different state governments. So that means that I've got 47 left to go, right?

Nina Ogor: Yep. Sounds about right. [Laughing]

Christoph Weber: Well, that's two more than I have, so congratulations.

Matt Kleve: [Laughing]

Christoph Weber: But, you know, there's even within the federal governments, there are levels that aren't really fully there. When I was at DrupalCon in Pittsburgh one of our clients is at a national lab, and then one of the other national labs came up and talked to us, and I figured out they don't know about each other.

Matt Kleve: Oh my, yeah!

Christoph Weber: So here we have two national labs and, you know, and they're sort of equals. They compete to some extent, so for federal funds of course, so there's a certain level of I don't want to necessarily share. But not knowing that they each have Drupal themes and are using Drupal and are interested in learning more and networking and figuring stuff out together, it strikes me as this is this is wrong. So hopefully many more of those folks can attend GovCon and other events and cooperate where it makes sense and then compete for funds where it makes sense, right? There's there's no reason why these things cannot coexist.

Matt Kleve: Did you introduce these two people?

Christoph Weber: I did.

Matt Kleve: How fun is that? Hey, hey! You two. You should know each other because you do the same thing.

Christoph Weber: Exactly.[Laughing] Exactly.

Matt Kleve: That's the kind of happenstance that happens on, you know, in an in person conference, right?

Christoph Weber: Absolutely. And that's one more reason to be excited to be back live and and, you know, real and and actually interacting and seeing all of our body language and not just upper bodies.

Matt Kleve: Sure. Yeah. So I mean, it would be it would be a struggle for me to to not say maybe there'll be health issues in the future. I'm sure that you'll be following the, the local governments and recommendations to, to have a healthy conference best you can. Right?

Nina Ogor: Oh, absolutely. 100%. As I mentioned before, we're taking precautions as much as we can because Covid is still around. It still exists. We we understand that we want this to be not only, you know, a safe environment, but a very welcoming environment. So we're encouraging masks, if you want to wear them, we're going to have them available. We also will have hand sanitizer at all the stations. We're doing box lunches, so there will be no buffet. If anyone was looking forward to Moby Dick. I know our lunch lines are notorious for being very long and exhausting to wait in. We we've changed that this year to make sure that you are as protected as we can possibly offer, and we really want to make sure that everyone feels comfortable.

Matt Kleve: Very good. And this is run by volunteers, right? I mean, I've heard that a couple of times. Drupal4Gov is a group of volunteers that puts on this this Drupal GovCon conference. And that's that's what it takes, a bunch of people pitching in.

Nina Ogor: Yeah, it's absolutely community led. No one here besides our interns gets paid. It's all just because we really love the community, and we're excited to give back. But speaking of our interns, we're very excited because this year we've been able to revitalize our internship programs. We currently have two project management interns. And then we also have a web intern as well. So we we're excited to be able to offer them a stipend for their time in addition to mentorship. And we are looking at paths towards some certifications for them as well. We want we want to make sure that when you join our organization, you get a lot out of it. Not just that you give a bunch to us we don't want to take. We want to make sure everyone is getting what they need so that that's one of the big things we're really excited to be doing this year. In terms of giving back to the community and making sure we're continuing to support, but another one that I completely forget. I am doing this lately. We have an education competition initiative that will be starting in 2024. We're going to be partnering with some universities locally to start and then hopefully more widely across the US, where we're going to be doing a competition for students involved in technology and specifically in web design. And, you know, building websites. Kirsten Burgard, our CEO of the organization, is going to be heading up that project. And she's still working out a little bit more of the logistics, but it'll be a competition along the course of about six months, with the prize being for your team tickets to go to DrupalCon, all expenses paid. Now, that is going to be exclusive to university students and training programs. But we're really excited to revitalize the community by doing activities like this.

Matt Kleve: That sounds really great. That's that's innovative, I like it.

Nina Ogor: Thank you.

Matt Kleve: When I signed up, I was also offered the check box of, hey, any chance you want to help us out? So if someone else signs up, what kinds of things might you be looking for for extra volunteer work?

Nina Ogor: Hmm, that's a really awesome question. I think Christoph will tell you anything and everything. If we see a need, we'll kind of put you where you want to be. We're a very flexible organization. So if you have a passion or want to do something very specific, come join us. We love your expertise. If you want to do something you've never done before because you're interested in it again, come, we'll talk about it. We'll offer it. Our our current process is basically just we want people that are excited about Drupal that want to give back that have, you know, as little or as much time to dedicate as they want and people that stick around. We've had an awesome team over the years, people who've been with our organization for 5, 10 years or longer since the start. So we're looking for longevity. Whether that's an hour a week or three months a year before, you know, Drupal GovCon, we just really want people who are excited who'll stay and who are willing to share their expertise and learn.

Christoph Weber: But, you know, more, more specifically, I think, you know, there's various levels of engagement here, too. I'm sure because we're between two hotels across the street some, some more help with ushering people and making sure they're not getting lost is definitely welcome. For those who just want to jump in and help out for an hour. Same for the lunch lines. So those are your short term engagements, if you will, for people who don't want to do too much while they're attending the conferences and absorbing all the content, then there's these longer term engagements that we're secretly hoping for. So, as Nina said, you can get in at all levels. It's really up to you where and how and why you can contribute, and we'll make sure we find a space for you.

Matt Kleve: Very cool. So I think you missed the opportunity though. There's a tagline here that Drupal GovCon is a conference of the community, by the community and for the community.

Nina Ogor: Thank you for that. Yes. That is absolutely true. Oh man, that is a great you know what I'm. Saving that for next year. That's that's our saying [laughing].

Matt Kleve: [Laughing]

Christoph Weber: Well, we'll we'll shamelessly steal that. Thank you Matt.

Matt Kleve: Anytime. Yeah I'm full I'm full of bad ideas. It's okay. So somebody who's not from around there, who who wants to come how, do you get there? Which which airport should I use? Where where where am I staying? How does this work?

Nina Ogor: See, if Christoph...

Christoph Weber: It's interesting you should ask that. I've just researched it this morning for myself. So like I mentioned in the beginning, I'm in San Diego, so I'm on the other coast. There are three possible airports in the in the Washington area. But when you look at long you know, long distance flights like I do, it's basically Dulles. That's the only choice for me that offers nonstop flights. But, you know, just check on any of those aggregation sites through Google flights or anywhere and see what you find in terms of traveling there. Fortunately, D.C. happens to be a hot spot, so it's easy to get there. You probably don't have to change planes more than once. In terms of staying, it's easy because we have the two hotels and there is a block of rooms on each with with a preferential rate. So that's the Residence Inn in Bethesda and the Hilton across the street. And the links are off of the website. Plus, also, if you're already signed up, you receive regular email updates that have those links inside. So you'll be covered. You can basically be on site at a budget that won't kill you. So should be accessible to most people. And, you know, ask your employer or your government agency to help and sponsor. I'm sure for most people, there's at least a little bit of help.

Nina Ogor: Yep. And to add on to that if you're taking Metro, I highly encourage flying into DCA. It will, Metro is right there. You would just transfer at I believe Metro Center to the Red line, and you'll be in Bethesda in no time at all. Metro is a little bit finicky, so do plan accordingly, but that's one of the easiest ones. We are less than two blocks away from Metro. It is accessible if you are a wheelchair user or need special accommodations. We do have that available and the venue itself is accessible as well. We make sure that if you need any accommodations, we do provide that. We have interpreting services that we use, and we make sure that all of our venues are accessible for wheelchairs as well. So I want that to be very clear. Please come if you're excited and if you're worried, contact us. We we really want to make sure that we accommodate anyone who who needs it or doesn't. We want to make sure you feel welcomed. That that's the thing I will always continue to bring up and say.

Matt Kleve: How do they reach out? How does someone get in touch?

Nina Ogor: Contact@Drupal4Gov.us is the easiest one. If you have been with us for years, you can also reach us at drupal4gov@gmail.com. Either one works.

Nina Ogor: And that's Drupal the number four and gov.

Nina Ogor: Yes. Thank you for specifying that, Matt. I appreciate it because I never spell that out. Yes, it's Drupal. D-r-u-p-a-l the number four and then gov, g-o-v at gmail.com or contact@Drupal4Gov.us.

Matt Kleve: Is there anything else that I didn't talk about that we should mention about the conference? Anything you'd like to add?

Nina Ogor: Yes. So we lunch is provided. Again tickets are free, highly encouraged. Lunch is provided. We do have a few socials that are going on, but we're so excited. Insignia Federal is going to be doing a game night the first night from about 5:30ish onward. So if you have games you're interested in, please bring them. I have about 20 sitting here from past GovCons, and I will be absolutely bringing those games. And families are welcome too, we typically have an opening reception. But this year, since it's on a Wednesday, a little bit strange than normal, we're keeping it low key. We're keeping it family friendly. And come play games with us. I am very good at Secret Hitler. I'm warning anyone out there. I am excellent at it. Be warned. So we're just a really awesome community, and we hope to see you, whether you're a speaker or your attendee, or especially if you're a sponsor and if you're interested in sponsoring. We do do custom sponsorships. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I'm so upset that I didn't get to sponsor this year, please reach out. We have hack day partnerships throughout the year. We have another offering for our sponsors coming very soon that we'll be announcing. And we try and make sure that if you want to be a part of the community in this way and sponsor, we're going to do everything in our power to make that happen. Especially given just how excited people are to come back to GovCon this year. I'm I'm overwhelmed by just the reception we've gotten and so thrilled to be able to see everyone, especially Amy June's keynote. I'm so excited to, like, just listen to it and learn about it. And yes, you will just hear me be very excited throughout because we're coming back and I can't wait.

Matt Kleve: Christoph?

Christoph Weber: Yeah, I echo that sentiment, right? It's this year is my year where I'm out there for sure. I've been at DrupalCon. I've been traveling to Europe to headquarters this summer. I'm going to be at GovCon. I'm also going to be at API world later before that up in Santa Clara. So this is the year where I think we all are out and about and, and creating new connections. And GovCon definitely is one of the highlights.

Matt Kleve: And if you can't make it to DrupalCon in France, maybe GovCon should be on the list, right?

Christoph Weber: For sure.

Nina Ogor: It should definitely be on the list. Even if you do make it.

Matt Kleve: Oh, good point.

Nina Ogor: Yeah, I mean, we are, I think you brought it up. We are, you know, currently the second largest Drupal conference, even with our smaller set of 400 people in North America. And we remain the third largest internationally. So we're excited to get back. We're excited to see our attendees. Many of you will recognize my voice. I am the registration girl. So if you've been to our event before, I can't wait to see you again. It's kind of like coming back and welcoming old friends and family. So. Yes. And you will most likely. Also, Matt, I should mention this, see us at a couple of other Drupal events as well. We're we're getting back into being the conference that also sponsors other conferences. That's one of our core goals this year is to be out in the community yet again, sponsoring. We started that trend and we sort of didn't have the we weren't able to do what we wanted with it. And so we're coming back. One of our goals is to sponsor at least five camps this year. So you will be seeing us in the community. You will be seeing us at these events, and we're so excited to get back out there.

Matt Kleve: Sounds great. Thank you both for joining us. I appreciate it and I look forward to GovCon.

Nina Ogor: Great thanks for having us, Matt.

Christoph Weber: Great we'll see you there, Matt.